In this episode, we are joined by guest Bailey Rayford, CEO of Kendall Logan Logistics.
Bailey shares her insights on the essential role of logistics in business growth, the importance of community and relationships in entrepreneurship, and the driving force of legacy in her life and career.
Bailey also emphasizes the necessity of mentorship and peer groups in navigating the entrepreneurial pathway.
Kendall Logan, an Indianapolis-based, Black woman-owned logistics firm, is recognized for its all-women leadership team and significant contributions to sectors like skincare, pharmaceuticals, and medical equipment.
This episode provides inspiration and practical insights for entrepreneurs and professionals alike.
Bailey Rayford is the CEO at Kendal Logan Logistics. A black, woman-owned logistics company, based in Indianapolis.
Kendal Logan has an all-women leadership team, decades of experience in the Supply Chain industry, and does a ton of work in the skin care industry, Pharmaceuticals, and medical equipment — working with big customers like Walmart.
Be sure to check out these great clips from the show:
- 01:45 Understanding Kendall Logan Logistics
- 03:09 The Journey to Starting a Logistics Company
- 05:36 The Importance of Internships and Learning in Entrepreneurship
- 06:53 The Role of Logistics in E-commerce
- 07:12 The Impact of Amazon on Logistics
- 16:00 The Role of Midwest in Logistics
- 17:55 The Challenges and Opportunities in E-commerce
- 27:51 The Role of AI and Technology in Logistics
- 32:19 Building Relationships in Business
- 34:43 The Art of Making Business Decisions
- 35:24 Family Business and Farming Roots
- 36:03 Growing Up in a Small Town
- 37:42 The Importance of Community and Family
- 39:20 Building a Community in the Midwest
- 41:57 The Struggle for Equitable Opportunities
- 43:39 Managing Anxiety in Business
- 45:52 The Power of Peer Groups
- 50:56 Shipping Stories and Business Name Origin
- 53:16 The Importance of Family and Legacy
- 56:51 Indiana Insights and Hidden Gems
- 01:00:07 Leaving a Lasting Legacy
In our conversation with Bailey, you will learn about:
- The Human Connection: Bailey shares her perspective on the importance of building connections and finding common ground with people. She believes that everyone has a story, and by engaging in conversations, you can discover a connection.
- The Power of Partnerships: Bailey shares her journey of landing large partnerships, emphasizing the importance of connections and learning from others. Her story is a testament to how business can be a force multiplier for good.
- Women in Logistics: Bailey highlights the significant contribution of women in the logistics industry, debunking the misconception that it’s just about trucking.
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Matt: From the crossroads of America and the Hoosier state of Indiana. This is get in the podcast focused on the unfolding stories and extraordinary innovations happening right now in the heartland. I’m Matt Hunckler CEO at Powderkeg, and I’ll be one of your hosts for today’s conversation. I’m joined in studio by co-host Nate Spangle.
Head of community at Powderkeg and on the show today is Bailey Rayford, CEO of Kendal Logan Logistics,
Bailey: And just be like, Oh, my weight, my, my shoulders have been heavy because I couldn’t release this, or I couldn’t talk about this to certain groups. And then when you find there are certain groups, it just you’re such a tease.
Matt: Bailey Rayford is the CEO at Kendal Logan Logistics, a black woman-owned logistics company based in Indianapolis. And it’s a very interesting business. Kendal Logan has an all-women leadership team, decades of experience in the supply chain industry, and does a ton of work in the skincare industry, pharmaceuticals, and medical equipment, working with big customers like Walmart.
And on the show today in this conversation, we’re going to discuss how to land large partnerships to accelerate growth. Using business as a force multiplier for good and we’re going to share some startup stories that are sure to inspire new ideas and Perspectives in your own career. Here’s Bailey Rayford Bailey.
Thank you so much for being here.
Bailey: Thank you for having me I’m so excited to be here with you two today.
Matt: You have such a cool company and I Logistics is something that is like very much outside of my comfort zone. So I hope just You’ll forgive me with my ignorance as we dive into all things supply chain and logistics.
But I would love it if you could, for the audience, just explain your business, what it is that you do with Kendal Logan, and yeah, maybe just the high level view of the business would be really helpful.
Bailey: Oh, yeah. Again, thank you for having me today. Kendal Logan is a third party logistics firm.
Every day we are shipping, we’re kitting, we’re providing fulfillment distribution, warehousing, and some small local, I say within central Indiana, transportation services. We move in product to pharmaceutical drug stores, B2B retailers, and we’re also fulfilling direct to consumer.
Nate: Yeah. Oh, so you’re like picking, shipping individual individual pieces direct to people’s doors?
Bailey: So what we do is, for example, if you had a business and you wanted to have a fulfillment partner. You would ship your product to us, and through our warehouse management system and the technology that we use, your orders now come to us. It bypasses you, or you have access to see it as well, but we are actually seeing those orders come through too.
As we see the orders every day, we pick the items whatever process and, layout you have of how you want your boxing to look, what do you want in there, inserts, marketing materials. We put those items in there to your specific, as you want it, and we are the ones who are delivering it to your customers.
Nate: So fascinating. How did you get started? It feels like at scale that works really well, right? You have this big warehouse, you have a ton of customers, right? So you’re picking and packing maybe five orders for this business, five orders for that business, ten for that one. How do you get started though, if it’s just like one or two customers and not very much order volume?
Bailey: So ironically when I Pre covid I would say probably six months prior to covid. It’s amazing how timelines work. I know time warp. I’ve always had my hand in transportation logistics, meaning dispatching brokering. But I always consider that’s the last mile when it comes to transportation.
And I’ll be honest, in our community, when someone says, I’m in logistics, you usually say how many trucks do you have? So there was a knowledge and there was a part of this entire process. To me, that’s never talked about for career pathways, entrepreneurship, professional careers, as it relates to every part of the shipping, or placing that order, or designing that order to the delivery.
So I call it the guts. So nobody really talked about the guts inside. And, I don’t know, I woke up, I just had my second child, and I was like, I want to figure out something else that I can make money with. So I have my flexibility with my kids. My husband has a demanding job, so I do know the importance of being a wife.
And I just decided, I want to learn more about warehousing. Ironically, I ran into or met a gentleman who owned a third party logistics company in Hendricks County. And I don’t know how it even came. It was like very quick. He was like what do you want to do? And I was like, I really want to learn warehousing.
And he was like, okay, you can learn as much as you want to. So I’m grateful for that because he could have easily said to me you’re not going to learn my secret sauce. What kind of business was that? It was literally the same, but it was in a million square foot facility. To the corner, you’re working in automotives to the other corner. You were working in technology and testing. You were in the back working at pharmaceuticals and he had two more facilities in the city. One was completely cold chain. You still had a e commerce B2B D2C section. So everything you actually could ever want to learn just happened to all be in the same building.
And you went and worked there? I did. I became, I call myself his 40 year old intern. Yes. I woke up one day and I just decided to go and literally just. I think it’s important for people to just learn
Nate: What do you think aspiring entrepreneurs can gain from going to work in entrepreneurship, being the 40 year old intern before they start their business.
Bailey: I think what they can learn is just sometimes we have to humble if you have the opportunity. I was blessed. Yes, to have the opportunity to just go and dive in. A lot of people can’t do that just for resources or financial and there’s no issue with that. But I think what they can learn is when you’re in that space and you’re not necessarily an employee you really get to see the good the bad the ugly You know, I saw where a scope would come in Monday and a quick turnaround To have a pricing to them by Wednesday and like we just got this on Monday He was like, I don’t care.
They asked for it. This is, something they need ready, real time. You saw the ins and outs of just the working on Saturdays or the late evenings after everybody else had gone home. You were, during COVID it was extremely critical because at this point you’re essential. Your hands are on a lot of the vaccines.
We see it on TV. We hear about it on national news. But no one really ever talked about The back office and the buildings and the people. Who are working.
Nate: I think that we had Connor Hitchcock of Homefield on the show a little bit ago and he talked about Black Friday. It’s Oh, it’s so great for all these orders to come in.
It’s but what you don’t see is him and all of his employees working until 2 a. m. Trying to make sure that the chipping times are down and that their customers are getting their products and through holidays, weekends, nights, like. Okay. I think we got it with the Amazon age, right? We take for granted oh, it’s going to show up the same day.
It’s someone’s got to be pulling that off the shelf, packaging that up and shipping it out.
Bailey: Yes. And I think a lot of times Amazon has changed the business because even though I’m not an Amazon, my customer who is the owner whose products I’m shipping, they still want their customer to feel that they’re getting the Amazon experience.
So that takes on resources for us to be able to think. Wow, I’ve got to have the same, I’ve got to have a warehouse management system that’s going to turn around quickly than the tracking numbers, things with just small things, I’m going to have people who are working because now if they paid for the expedited shipping and they just decided today at this time to order, but they decided to pay the extra 20 and they want it there tomorrow.
How does that fit into what I already got going on today, so when you see those red flags pop up, you’re like, wait, those 50 orders now have to go into your daily work. So that sometimes means now I’ve got to pay overtime to somebody or I’m going to become the labor. I’m just going to do it when everybody goes home.
Or I’m going to come in on a weekend myself and I’m going to actually do this just to keep my customer happy.
Matt: It’s pretty incredible that you had that opportunity to go in and see at that scale. The kind of business that you wanted to start and I feel I’d love to just slow down a second and ask a little bit more about that experience of meeting that person, that owner of that business.
How did that conversation go? How did you present yourself? How did you even get? a conversation with this person in the first place, because sometimes I feel like that kind of connection clearly was life changing for you in a lot of ways. A lot of times I think people don’t know how to.
Facilitate or manufacture out of thin air seemingly. Those kinds of life changing connections.
Bailey: So I’d like to go back and say, I grew up in an entrepreneurial household. Yeah. That’s sometimes the ask sometimes even, you know what, I don’t know everything about this, but what I do know is I want to back up the last mile.
I just don’t want to be at the end. I want to be in the middle or closer to the front as possible because what I noticed is I can negotiate more. Towards the front. By the time I get to that last mile in trucking, there’s no negotiation anymore. You’re taking what’s left. And you gotta have to be happy with it.
Why? Because you need to move those trucks. So I’m like, nope, we’re gonna move it. I’ll start to say my family, my dad, started a company here, my mom, 50 years ago. Very small business. So allowing my brothers and I to still sit in the room, be in the space, good day, bad day being, watching them say, I don’t know how to do this, but I know someone who does.
So watching like your parents do that. Then it comes to me. Second nature, and I always live by, if I don’t know something, and if it’s something I want, I’m gonna go seek out and find people who do, and I’m literally gonna become a sponge. So back to him. But I didn’t know him. He, I was assisting another group with dispatching their trucks and this individual had given them the opportunity to basically partner with him.
As around, like you just said, Black Friday, I’m on a big, come be honest, I’m like, there is no way this man is going to allow you to use his assets and build your business. What’s the catch? And I think I probably said that a thousand times. But now I know him. I know there was not a catch.
That is just exactly how his DNA is built. And he knew how people had helped him get started in his business. And he was living his life to pass it on. So I got to work with him and learn him in those capacities, literally at first and then and I, and it wasn’t necessarily me starting a business in warehousing.
It was me wanting to just, expand my knowledge and it could have been time because I was considering a professional opportunity once my son got a little older. How I got to the point of saying, I’m gonna do this for a business, it was later on. I had started really diving in and He was allowing me to sit at the table and we had an opportunity with some founders small company That were being started in health care skin care vitamin supplements, they didn’t have large Minimum orders, so that’s where the five to ten a day were coming in.
A lot of times those They can’t go out and get a third party logistics partner in that process. What happens is, they’re told, oh, you don’t have enough quantity. Or call us when you get to 500 orders. That could be forever. But, many of them had been given some great direct to consumer opportunities and platforms because of COVID and everyone was home.
But they also, because of the unfortunate death of George Floyd, a lot of these companies were just like opening doors and cutting some of the timing of, the discovery or marketing of some of these small companies too, just to allow them to some of their black business launches, some of, increasing the visibility on stage on some of their stories.
So with that. I had started working with them, and in working with them, I just noticed they didn’t understand logistics. Yeah. The products look good, the products smell good, but when it came to getting their product there, and that huge booklet that comes from that distribution center, they had no idea.
How to maneuver in it.
Nate: And that’s like making a first impression. You, your item shows up at your door and it’s very easy to tell people who, like Apple for instance when my new iPhone showed up like a year or two ago. It’s a heck of an experience to open an iPhone. It is wow, this is sweet.
Versus when something’s I feel like direct, shipped from China and it’s like dropshipped and it shows up and it’s Thank goodness it made it here. Like it’s taped together by the seams. It’s easy to tell that
Bailey: Right, and so imagine being in your apartment in LA in New York and You design this product and you’ve been Working on the perfect formula and it’s worked and now you’re selling it to your friends Just selling it to the little market around the corner Now you build out a website.
So now you’re okay because I’m still at home. I still can package it I still can ship out 50 orders a week by myself And then you get a phone call from an Ulta, or a Sephora, or a Target or a JCPenney. And they’re saying, hey, you’re not going to dollar stores, but we’ll give you this kind of start and pilot program.
And you’re like, wait, I didn’t even, for some of them, they had no idea this day would ever come and they didn’t even build a business to even support it. So they were like, we don’t even have barcodes on our product because this wasn’t what we were doing. However, so that quickly, their business scaled, shifted they had to pivot.
And some of them didn’t even have to pivot. Now you got both business, both parts going at one time. So we’re like, wait, this is where it’s critical to have a logistics partner. You need to know how to move it. You need to understand the timelines. You need to understand what their distribution centers are requiring.
You need to understand how to have your product leak proof. How to make sure the spacers are in there, understand the quantity counts, understand the location of your barcode when it’s going through the scanner of that retailer, where they want it located. All those things are critical.
Nate: Yeah. Imagine getting that call up to the big leagues, all the calls.
Bailey: That’s exactly what it is.
Nate: And you’re like, okay, like how do I ship that from my 500 square foot in New York apartment? Exactly. Like you’re shipping pallets. Like that just seems like a crazy, one, a crazy cool opportunity for those founders that are having that opportunity, but also very overwhelming.
It’s oh, I know about marketing and. Facebook and I can sell a bunch of a bunch of my product and then you’re like, but B to B big box store, like that’s challenging for sure.
Bailey: So I started working with them while I was at the larger location facility, and then unfortunately the company was going to be acquired and during the acquisition period some of these founders felt like They didn’t know if they were going to get the same support by the new owners.
And it wasn’t an issue with the new owners, it’s just their focus, they were wanting to be on that top minimum. And it’s wait, we’re not, still not there yet. But what I also found out by working with them, they had two things that they really wanted to do. They wanted to stay in Indiana or in the Midwest.
They thought it was great for them for shipping.
Nate: And they want. Why is that? Why is Indiana a hotbed for logistics?
Bailey: The Midwest is. Because you usually can get something anywhere within a certain amount of time. And, like I said, we’re still on the Amazon. I want it I ordered it at 8. I want it at 8.
30. I want it as quickly as possible. So being in the Midwest, you usually have the flexibility. Plus you have major hubs here. You have FedEx here who you can really just move quick. You have Amazon who has some of their regional facilities within, Greenfield or just here in Indiana.
So it allows companies, especially smaller ones, to be able to feel like we can still meet those requirements. And it does. It works well.
Nate: We just had Masha from PawCo, which is a direct to consumer vegan. Or plant based food, dog food company, and they won the rally in prize competition for food nag.
And she said, so she’s Bay Area, lives in San Francisco, and she’s even before Rally, we were already exploring the Midwest for our shipping and production hub, because it’s a one day drive anywhere in the country. And it’s that’s game changer, versus if you’re trying to ship from, I imagine San Francisco to Maine, that’s a really long drive.
Bailey: Oh, I think about how COVID changed. The way we think everybody’s at home regardless of where you are in the country or in the world. Everybody’s home. Everybody wants whatever. They couldn’t go to certain stores. They couldn’t, certain things they just couldn’t go pick up anymore. They didn’t have access to just the normal way of living.
So the normal way that it came was, we’ll send it to you regardless of where we are. We just happen to just be in a great part of the country. That really made that process easy.
Matt: There’s been such an explosion of these direct to consumer brands over the last 10 years because of the internet and social media marketing.
What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see direct to consumer brands companies that are selling a product
Bailey: make? the discovery period And it’s just like any other entrepreneur. We wake up every day thinking we know it. We’ve got ours is the best. It’s great But I think the discovery period and I struggle one time at my mistakes I felt like for me the discovery I was in it.
I was in it in a different capacity Then when I shifted to now everything comes back on me compared to me literally being able to lateral it to someone, another CEO and I’m like, there’s nowhere to pass the ball to. So you’re either going to run. So you’re either going to be in the back of your mind to score or you’re going to be in the back of your mind.
You always know you’re gonna get sacked.
Nate: Yeah. That’s a football term, man. I know you’re a big sports guy.
Matt: So the discovery period very much is like the research gathering data, talking to potential customers. Tell me a little bit more about a good discovery period process.
Bailey: A good discovery process is, yes, you can have your product.
You should have a third party relationship to go in and test your product. If your product’s going on the shelf somewhere in a business in a B2B opportunity, You should know how long that product should be on the shelf. You should build a relationship, I would say, with a third party tester.
You should actually do some shipping prior to your big shipments. Just to know timing, how long it takes to get there. You should have a relationship with your distribution. wHen we take on a new customer, we require, even for us, we require a two to three week. Pilot process. From the time I get your product to the time I ship, whatever date you tell me, you’re going to back it up because I’ve already shipped three times.
I don’t care if you tell me to ship it to your house so you can see what our process looks like, but before I ship it or before it goes to anything representing our company and your company, we’ve already done those processes in house.
Matt: Yeah. You don’t want to be doing that real time, right?
Nate: I think that some people, when they start these e commerce businesses, what they forget about it, it’s really easy to ship something direct to consumer.
The packaging doesn’t matter as much, from just getting it there versus shipping to a place like Ulta or any of these big boxes. I know we can talk about your. What you’ve been doing with Walmart, which I’m really excited to hear about, but it’s like the order matters, how it shows up there, barcodes, packaging, what’s it going to look like on a shelf?
Like people start reaching out like, Oh, wouldn’t it be so cool if I got my product in Ulta, but I’ve never gone into Ulta and looked at a shelf and seen Oh, this is how mascara, like tray designs are. Welch packaging here in town and they sell, he literally sells cardboard boxes, but he, I thought, Oh, it’s just cardboard boxes.
What do you mean? So much intricate detail in the packaging industry, as he likes to call it.
Bailey: Yes, I think so for example, we talk about Walmart. So we do ship a farmer product into Walmart. We are shipping right now into 32 of the distribution centers today. What kind of product it’s a pharmaceutical just it’s on the shelf form of product It’s based out of the UK.
So we are the North America distributor
Nate: Are there different requirements from like I don’t look from a shipping perspective for FDA type Pharmaceutical food that kind of thing versus a widget
Bailey: It is. So we did have to go through the process and we’re actually still in the process of having our company FDA certified.
So that allows us to pack out medical devices that allows us to basically do the end user packaging for companies. So a company has a product in another part of the world. But we can assist them and be their North America distributor. Meaning they can come to us and then we can manage all their orders here in the US and Canada.
So we’re actually in that process now to even expand that even more but absolutely when you think of like a box, it’s not just a box, it could be a certain size, certain width it comes down to even if you’re shipping it or not just on a pallet, if you’re shipping one offs to, and you’re using UPS, what’s that cost?
The cost is different for the size of that, material how many times we call them touches? How many times are we going to touch this box? You know that’s how we really build out our price list to. Tell me how many times we’re going to do this sample and in our pricing quote, when we do it we want to know how many times an employee is going to touch this box.
It’s going to be five labels. It could be, Stuffing material in the inside of the box, it could be reshaping the box, but how many times when we just design our pricing and our price point and our quotes, we’re quick to say how many times, I probably say that more than anything, how many times you touch the box.
Matt: When you first started shadowing this entrepreneur that you met early in your logistics I know you said you were exploring potentially professional opportunities, not just an entrepreneurial opportunity. What was the deciding factor for you? Take me back to that moment when you decided, you know what?
I could go and, get a salaried position at some point, but I think I actually want to start my own thing.
Bailey: So it was prayer. It was Literally, strong conversations with my husband, because I do have two kids. And the pivotal point for me was this group of founders that I had been working with since their infancy like I said, still there at their warehouse with him.
I heard that they were leaving and I heard that they wanted to stay in the Midwest. And I also heard that they wanted to have a minority partner. mAny of them were, all of them were minority women, Hispanic, black businesses. But that was a part of their collab that every part of that ecosystem, they wanted to find a woman owned business or a racial equity partner to be a part of it.
And I knew they were looking at other parts of the country to seek out those check boxes. But I kept hearing, we want to stay in the Midwest. They were up against launches as well, so when you think when someone says, we’re putting you on our shelf November 1, and it’s May or June you’re already in that process because your product probably has to be with them in the next 30 days to get to their distribution centers so they can kit it out to go in their kits that are going to go in 75 to 100 stores around the country.
So all that timeline made sense. So they were worried to that one. If we change now we take a risk of not being prepared because now we’ve got to build that relationship back up and we have to figure out, we have to make sure that they can give us what we need and we have to make sure that we can be where we need to be.
Luckily, I’d already been in the room with them. I had sat through so I knew exactly their timing. I also knew from a processing place, like the technology that was being used. I also knew like the requirements from the Walmarts the, the EDI, EDSs. So I just, I literally just went on a whim and I was like, let’s go figure out where we can do this and start off small and see if, we can execute it.
So that’s probably, it was that simple, but scary at the same time. What was the key?
Nate: What was the number one factor that got them to take a chance on you? I
Bailey: I think it was already in the building. It’s easy sometimes just to connect. And don’t get me wrong, we still had our hiccups when we got started.
We still had things that weren’t showing up on our system. We still had orders that were not coming through. We still had our processes that had to be, done. And we still had our own growth period of being a new business. But a lot of times, I think still what helps is there’s not many partners out here that’ll take a 20 order or you’re going to replenish, but you’re only replenishing every three to six months.
So it’s not like your products are moving off the shelf every day and you need to replenish it every week or every whatever. so To build that kind of business for a small business to basically get that opportunity is still not really out there.
Matt: So you identified this opportunity because you saw this bigger business that was we can’t really service this smaller business.
And you knew from your experience that there were smaller businesses out there that you could start a very lucrative business that could scale if you got the aggregate. What do you think is the biggest benefit of lots of different customers?
Bailey: For example, I’m meeting with seven new founders tonight.
Amazing. And they’re the same way. Many of them are packaging in their homes. buT I’m like, what if we could have they’re packaging, they’re doing their formulas at their house. They’re doing their bottling at their house. And they’ve got great product. And they’re getting a lot of buzz. But I’m like, let’s pull this out of your house,
Nate: I have stories. I started an e commerce brand four or five years ago and you always dream when you’re like in the e commerce play of Oh, black Friday and we’re like up till 2 a. m. Shipping is going to be at least I know that’ll be so fun. Then I did it once and I was like no, I’m out of this. Like you get like a hundred orders and you’re just like taping the same thing over and over like you’re putting in there, you’re getting paper cuts on your hands and you’re like, yeah.
This was really fun for the story the one time but that’s like the life of running an e commerce brand out of your house so and
Bailey: Those are the customers that I want to be able to assist It’s great to have larger companies in your warehousing for them But a different business unit that we can offer because we still have labor in the building I’m like we can do that 2050 order hundred order
Nate: What’s the biggest misconception about the logistics industry
Bailey: That it’s just trucking, that is just trucking The logistics industry unless you’re in it Every day and you see the different movements and requirements.
It’s not just trucking I think another myth is the female presence A lot of times you walk in warehouses, and you walk on those warehouses and floors, and you’ll see the packouts, you’ll see the kitting, you’ll see the labor on the manufacturing floor, you’ll see the forklift drivers, the lift drivers, women.
So I think to me that, that was one of the misconceptions I had when walking in a building. And for every one man, there’s two women or more, it’s women aren’t necessarily the owners of these businesses, however, they are in inside, you see a tremendous amount of women who are making sure these steps are handled and that, these companies are successful.
Matt: There’s so many new technologies, autonomous vehicles, AI, big data. What are some of the technology trends you’re most excited about for logistics and supply chain?
Bailey: I think the AI helps with some of the technology of working with the founders and also figuring out ways to streamline the processes for a less human era.
I think that’s when you think of the pack outs and the picking and, even the fulfillment and the distribution part. Finding ways to remove the errors and be more precise, your quality checks, those technologies are becoming more with robots. Yeah. I think AI is going to play a pivotal role in that too.
We’re actually looking at technology now. As soon as the boxes is dropped at our door, we don’t have to touch it, but we can actually have technology that’s going to immediately Pick it up as soon as we, and I’ll take a step back and say we don’t touch it, but once we put a label on it as soon as it’s dropped from that UPS or FedEx to our Bay door, that label is going on it.
And when that label goes on it, we’re that’s literally where the handholding stops from a human. Wow. The label goes on. We’ve got the technology right at the door and that technology is going to already tell us where it’s from, what possibly it could be for that particular customer. anD we’ll already be in our warehouse management system.
That’s incredible. Yeah. So those are things that I think from a larger scale, it’s already being done. Yeah. But like, how do we now define it? How do we implement it? How do we pay for it? For it to go into a small third party logistics company.
Nate: I’d love to Hear the genesis of of Kindle Logan, right?
So you had the, we were almost there. These customers that you had been servicing since they were. Just their inception and then you build up and you’re, you know what, we’re going to do this. And you rent, do you lease a warehouse and then you just start like shipping stuff? Like how did that start?
Bailey: I sought out a warehouse and I met, someone else at the time and I just was seeking out just like how to get started.
How to work with as well. It probably wasn’t my, it wasn’t the best place, but it wasn’t the worst. It was someone, yes, saying, I’m not using this part of my building, the great part about Indiana, and when people ask me why do I love living here, I feel like you’re going to find people who can remember how they started.
You’re going to find people who are going to remember it wasn’t easy. So you could be that, billionaire right now. But I think there are people still out there who remember, the hiccups when they got started or the bootstrapping. And I’ve been blessed to meet some of those and that’s just literally how some of my opportunities have come of just, not necessarily, taking all I got at once, but just giving me an opportunity.
And actually, being excited sometimes I’ve been blessed to hear the words. I’m excited to see you in the business. I’m excited to see you, taking on this opportunity.
Nate: Yeah. And I think that comes from relationships, right? Like you, just from our brief, what we’re 20, 20, 30 minutes in right now, like you seem like an expert relationship builder, right?
From going to become that 40 year old intern to getting up an unused slice of somebody’s business or building to start like launching your company out of. It comes from relationships and building that like social capital. I like to call it, you know Do you have any good tips for the listeners on how to build strong relationships?
Bailey: So I share this right now with my nephew I have Nephews who are in college, and I often tell them anyone you meet, talk to them, speak to them figure out a common, common denominator. Don’t just stand in the corner and expect someone to talk to you, or don’t expect someone just to know what you’re thinking.
I was 14 year old. We have this thing that we say, I always tell her, you’re in a safe space. I call it a rectangle when I Build out this diagram with her and then I put a circle right in the middle and I’m like your safe space is a circle But your actual safe space is this huge rectangle so you don’t even know what’s on the sides So I just got the car and I was telling her go kick a corner go meet somebody new go try something You’re still in that safe space I think a lot of times people shy away from that because they feel like they’re embarrassed to tell their story They’re embarrassed to ask for help.
They’re embarrassed, or not even embarrassed, but the anxiety of feeling comfortable sharing your dream or your vision. again, I give it back to my upbringing. My parents were, I remember, I used to go to Chamber of Commerce meetings. My mom sat on a committee. I would go with her literally when I was like 12, 13 years old, I would go so much.
I finally made my own lanyard and gave me a seat at the table because they knew I was coming. So I’ve always felt comfortable talking to people. I’Ve everybody has a story and if you talk to someone two to three minutes, you’re going to find a connector. Yes. You just have to keep building the conversation to build the connector.
So for me, I still do that now if I walk in a room, I might not know anybody when I walk in, but I guarantee you, I’m going to figure out a connector.
Matt: What’s one of your favorite stories from your parents growing up that taught you something that you still use today in entrepreneurship?
Bailey: Oh, wow.
That’s a great question. I don’t know. I think for me, I just had this conversation with my dad just two weeks ago. I had a bid in front of me and I felt like I wasn’t going to make a lot of money on it. But I felt like it was a relationship that I wanted and it was the first, it was like me stepping into their door and I immediately called him and just, he said, hello.
And I’m like, give me a, an example when you took on a customer and you weren’t gonna make a lot of money off of this customer and you still did it and tell me how you were able to maximize it and add some value at it or Three years later now you’re happy you did it because you still have it and you’ve made this amount more money
What was your family business?
My parents own a commercial landscaping company and we’re still active farmers too Yeah, what do they farm? So we have beef cattle production and we do crop production and we started back in maybe 2007. We started doing ornamental tree farming. So anything on a commercial job site, we actually grow it.
And so that allows us to keep our costs low in our landscaping business. Because now we’re growing all of our raw materials, or the materials for those jobs.
Matt: And that farm’s in North Carolina, right? Yes. Very cool. Is that where you originally grew up?
Yes. What was the ecosystem like in, in North Carolina, and what other entrepreneurs do you think influenced your journey?
Bailey: So I grew up in a very small town, that’s probably as big as this table. One flash and light.
Nate: NoT even a full stoplight, a flashing light.
Bailey: You want to be there. And it’s called harmony, North Carolina. I do believe it’s God’s country. I do believe it’s the best place on earth. And people say, where’s your best place that you want to vacation?
It’s on. The back of the pickup truck or sitting on the back patio at my dad’s house Looking at the cows or just watching people work around the farm, that’s like my heaven. Yeah Anytime I can get to and I’m there So I think my ecosystem was it started at home I lived to the left of my grandparents to the right of my great grandparents Every day after school I went to a space where I actually saw my granddad every day even living next door, I spent the weekends until my grandmother passed at my grandparent’s house.
Friday my dad would take my little bag across the hill to my grandma’s house and I wouldn’t come home until Sunday. And I’m literally next door, but the same experience my grandmother was given my cousins who lived 20 to 30 miles away. She afforded me and gave me the same one even though I was next door.
It was never a time, you should go home and get your hair done because I got four other heads to do. Nope. I sat in line just like everybody else. I woke up and had breakfast. Grits with sausage in it every Sunday morning and my granddad had all grandkids after church every Sunday. He had all of us and we went straight back to his house for family dinner.
So my ecosystem was built of community family, our church family. My dad was one of the few black business owners in our small community. So I think for early ages, for me, it was actually seeing, the hard decisions, but also seeing, and I celebrate this with him too, you had a vision 50 years ago.
You never would have thought, 50 years later, you would still have employees at BN1D for 30 years. And it’s a totally different vibe when you wake up with a vision and you scratch that vision out 50 times, or you think of this idea and then you throw, you, throw away that piece of paper and start again.
But to know you built a, you took a vision and you made it a business. And now to hear the stories of my dad worked for your dad when he was working building bridges or doing the seating work on new highways when we were growing up in school to know, I always laugh. I always, my little boy is fearless and I apologize to him every day for putting him in the suburbs cause he needs to be in the country.
But to watch him on, we’re home and he’s on a tractor and my daughter’s on a four wheeler and I’m like, slow down. I love it when I hear, people say, leave him alone. You were the same way when you were growing up. You rode the four wheeler the same way they did, or you did this, so it’s great to just have that same system around you just to realize, this is exactly what I wanted.
I want them to have this experience of understanding family and legacy.
Matt: It seems to me you’ve really built that community here in the Midwest.
Bailey: I’ve tried. I think if we’re going to live here and this is going to be home, it’s important to me to be involved. It’s important to me to be engaged in the community.
It’s important to me to seek out opportunities so people can not say live through you, but understand and seek to know opportunities are available. And I just want to take away anxiety and fear. So I hope I can be that catalyst sometimes when people can be like, she can do it. She’s sharing with us that she made mistakes.
She’s sharing with us, how she had to navigate and start over. And possibly this didn’t work out right or that, but she’s still doing it. And in my previous roles, I worked for the Department of Ag and I worked with small farmers and I sat many times at their tables and I could identify with them.
I could identify with that small farmer, the son works for the farm. His brother and everything they make comes off this little farm. But I could immediately be like, wait, that identifies with me and it’s important to me to help them succeed because that’s literally could be my story. And I just think when you’re in certain spaces, I don’t care about economics.
We all, that could easily be me. And I say that a lot. When I see little boys, I volunteer at some of the schools on the east side. And I live in Hamilton County. And this is true, and I’m very transparent about it, just to say sometimes the resources that my son has access to, he’s autistic, is over and beyond, it’s like incredible.
But when I go volunteer, 20 miles away, it’s like Why can’t I just literally shift all the resources to the left? But what I know is, if I shifted my son over to here, he’d be in the same, he’d still be that same little boy. So when I look at some of these kids sometimes, I’m like, that’s my son. I’m like, so a lot of me building the ecosystem here and finding those, it’s just the mere fact of.
How can we make a difference? hoW can we get engaged? How can we support the community? How can we help build businesses and change some of the trajectory of some of the fear and anxiety of people not coming to the table or not even feeling comfortable and know that there’s a seat at the table for them?
Matt: What do you think are some of the bigger opportunities for communities like Indianapolis to have more business owners that look like you or have a background more like you?
Bailey: That’s like my, that’s one of my passions right now.
Matt: I love that about you.
Bailey: Oh yeah. Thank you. For me, I feel like I’m blessed.
I’m blessed to have access to certain rooms. I’m blessed because I feel like I’m still learning, but I only can imagine if I didn’t have access, how hard my learning process would be. I want to close those gaps. Yeah. I want to, and sometimes I might not do it correctly, or understand the proper way because I just, I get intense about it because I’m like, this is simple.
I just want equitable opportunity. And I think I’ve learned just by sitting in some bedrooms or sitting in some of these spaces where you’re like, wow, where’s the diversity? It’s paper is anxiety, and there’s a stack of forms that you have to fill out to prove that you can actually participate.
And it’s all a stack of paper. It’s I’m not feeling people like, Oh, I’m not feeling all that out. And I’m like, you should, but I get it. And I think some of it goes back to just the grassroots meet them where they are, sit at their kitchen table with them and help them get over that anxiety the way we used to do it.
Technology has helped. But it’s still to me. I just feel like I want to figure out ways or just be a part of the change of removing the anxiety.
Matt: What are some of the ways you’ve managed your anxiety as you’ve run into business challenges or things that could have been roadblocks? That you turned into hurdles that you left over.
Bailey: First of all, my husband probably hears more or he’s had to be, okay, help me figure this out. Or, you can’t go do that tonight because I’ve got this big whatever. I think watching him how he’s navigated has been essential. I still go back to my upbringing. I still go back to going to the office every day.
In high school, I would get out of school. And I would go straight to my dad’s office and even if it’s just me filing or it was just me my anxiety probably could be a whole lot worse, but I think what helps me is to understand. This is only temporary Or this is just right now One thing I do I have a notebook and I have a red pen and I don’t allow myself to have But so many bad days a year so I’m really big on that
Matt: Tell me how you do that with the pen and notebook.
Bailey: So I have a calendar and I circle in my calendar when I’ve had a bad day with this red pen. And I probably give an entire thesis on what was the bad day and by the end is trying to figure out what could have not made it a bad day. But I don’t allow myself to have one a month and if I feel like I have a day that’s going that way to be in a bad day, I have to remind myself, listen, you already had one, last month.
Nate: If you’re on track for, if it’s starting out oh, this could go to a bad, how do you get yourself out of it?
Bailey: I literally tell myself, before you go to bed tonight, this has to shift to a good day. I love that. You cannot write in a red pen, you cannot pick up the red pen today.
Ooh, I love that. Oh my gosh.
That’s probably I have a great group of women, business owners. We’re fortunate to be a part of group YPO and I’m a part of a great forum. And I literally know there are some days when I just feel like I want to release the, where I’m getting at that level. I’m like, Oh, I can’t wait to get the forum.
And I’ve been with that same group for almost 10 years. Wow. And we meet every month.
Matt: Talk to me about the benefit of peer groups that meet regularly.
Bailey: Oh it’s just as essential to me. Recently I was at an event and the speaker made a comment and was like, we don’t think about it, but when we bring certain people around us all the time, it’s just as important as water.
In your body and your soul. She named it that day, she was like, Bring your water. Like when you’re going somewhere, you need that group. You need to also bring your water. You need to also know the people in the room that, without a question or a doubt, have your back and your front. So it’s, to me, it’s extremely essential.
I have two of those groups, more or less. People say I have more, but I think I only have a couple. My biggest peer group that I probably talk to daily. And no, I need that are my brothers even though they’re in North Carolina, I do believe between seven and eight in the morning or between seven and nine, I got to, I might not talk to both of them, but ironically, I’m sure both of them are in the room.
So whatever I said to one, the other one’s echoing in the background. And it’s all three of us are having a conversation. That’s cool. But I don’t, I think peer groups are very much essential in. It helps you understand, the ebbs and flows. It also is critical just to know, just to ping pong off people.
And it builds a network. I’ve been blessed to have opportunities, and I’ll tell you, it’s happened because of that particular network. Or me building a relationship with that individual person. And, I even challenged my daughter’s 14, and I’m like, with your basketball team, y’all should do practice and pancakes.
And she was like I was like, cause you’re going to eat pancakes every Saturday morning. So build your team and be that leader and build this group, so anything that I do, I’m always thinking of like, how do you make it stronger?
Nate: Yeah. And one day it’s like half the time she’s I think a freshman, you said, it’s one day she’ll look back and be like, Oh, practice and pancakes turns into I love that.
Bailey: I think for we were just talking about this last night. One thing. So she’s a freshman and she played soccer and going in high school and the anxiety of being a freshman in a high school, even though it’s not a large high school. Luckily with soccer and a kudos to the coaches, they partner, they put a freshman and a senior together and her senior has been phenomenal and even yesterday I was talking to her senior just by chance, I passed her and I was like, Oh, we’re going to miss this game or, y’all played really well and she was like, yeah, no, I was me and Reese were talking about this and it made my heart feel good.
Because she had been traveling, my daughter had, she had went to the WNBA game in New York and to know that she’s still communicating, with her person and it was just casual and on their own. It wasn’t someone forcing you to be, but I was telling her like, and it’s just want to identify like this person’s been real good to you, this person has really taken some of the anxiety off of you.
But I just think as an adult, as entrepreneurs, and when you keep getting that small, that circle smaller, you’re going to find your like minded people and they’re going to have the same day to day issues you are. And they’re going to have the good days and the bad days. They’re going to need your support, just like you’re going to be able to cheerlead for them.
Matt: I love your story and I love this conversation and everything that you’re doing with your business, with your community, and I really appreciate you coming here and sharing your story.
Bailey: Oh no, thank you guys. This has been awesome. Thank you.
Matt: We have just a couple of fun segments left. Oh, I’m scared. Yes.
You’re not getting out of here that easily.
Nate: Oh, okay. I have one question and two segments. Yes. I want to run through it. Final. This is this one kind of wrap up question. I love your agricultural farming background. If you, if the, I’m going to say the white collar community, if the white collar community could learn one thing from our nation’s farmers, what would it be? One thing.
Bailey: I think farmers were the first business owners to build succession planning. Oh to know there’s multi generational farm families, big or small who are literally designing ways to keep their children living on the farm, working on the farm. But when it comes to, I think entrepreneurs and businesses, I think sometimes we forget and there are a little totem pole.
Because you have so many other successes, making a lot more money, but I do think they have designed and probably were one of the first to design and understand the reason for having a succession planning.
Nate: I love that. That’s a great answer. All right. We have a one segment, number one, pretty fun one here.
It’s called ship happens. Okay. All right. We have a couple of fun shipping questions to ask you in our segment ship happens. First thing, what is the most unusual thing you’ve ever shipped?
Bailey: The most unusual thing I’ve ever shipped we have shipped we’ve shipped product like masks or, to like a masquerade party.
And you’re just getting all you’re questioning, like when you’re shipping it packaging, who would wear that or who’s going to be the person that’s going to have like you now want to shift from being the shipper to like the actual event because you want to be in the room because you want to identify and see what person has the song or so that was like a fun day because I’m like, and who is going or what is this?
Or, what kind of party is this?
Nate: Okay. What is the furthest location you’ve shipped something?
Bailey: Yeah. The furthest location we’ve shipped something is probably to China. I think we have shipped yeah, we’ve shipped to China.
Nate: Okay. The other side of the world, it’s tough to get further than that. Here we go. The moon. Have you ever shipped anything to a celebrity’s house?
Bailey: I don’t think I’ve shipped to a celebrity’s house. I think I’ve shipped to a celebrity’s mom’s house and I didn’t know it at the time. I think we were shipping some product and then it was brought up like later on who the product was going to and then they shared like who the celebrity was.
Nate: Oh, that’s pretty fun. Okay. So celebrities mom house. Yeah. And then do you have one shipping, quick shipping horror story?
Bailey: Shipping horror stories would be, you get. A huge packout request expedited needed the next day and it could be something that would take a week and you literally are trying to figure out how to do it in a 12 hour period.
There we go. So yeah, I have had those. Oh, absolutely. Like literally understand. I’ve gone home at a certain hour to have dinner with my family to know I’m going back to work and possibly knowing I’m coming back just enough time to make sure my kids are getting off to school the next morning. Yeah But that’s a part of it, and if you’re grinding in the beginning of it, you got to do what you got to do.
Nate: Amen. Okay. Wait, one more question on the shipping part and then we’ll go to our lightning round. Where did the name Kendal Logan come from?
Bailey: Kendal is my daughter’s middle name and Logan is my son’s middle name. That’s where it came from. And for me, it’s still everything I do goes back to family.
And I always think of what’s my why, and my why is I want my kids to have options. I don’t want them to have to wake up and go have to work for somebody because they can’t fulfill or can’t have options. So I want them to have options of working for someone or in a corporate or professional setting.
But I also know that, their parents. It’s built a business that they could actually become entrepreneurs and then they can pass it on. I always live by the notion that my grandparents and my great grandparents were working for me before I existed. I love that. And that’s literally what I have a twofold in my why.
My why is to, I don’t want my kids, I want my kids to have opportunity. I don’t want my kids dreams every derailed because a banker has a right to say no. And I want you, if you need to work with that banker, that’s fine, but your dreams will not be stopped or derailed because somebody’s sitting on the other side of a desk and they just have the power of telling you no.
And my second one is, I know my great grandparents, my great grandparents, and my grandparents, and I can go back to 1904, the first farmland that was purchased in our family was when my family was freed as slaves. They were thinking of me, they were planning, and they made sacrifices so I could have a great life.
I want my great grandchildren to talk about me as an everyday name, just like I can tell you about Herman Sharp, just like I can tell you about Raymond Holmes, just like I can tell you about Burgess Bailey. These gentlemen I never met, I never sat in a room with, but I can tell you how my Papa Burgess liked his water.
and how he put his shoes on every day. I can tell you about my Papa Raymond and the way he made his perfect lemonade and how he built this house and people were watching him build a home thinking he was building it for somebody else because they couldn’t understand a black man could build this kind of house for himself.
I can tell you the story of Herman Sharp where he stood and sat at the bottom of his land and he never drove, he walked everywhere. But when Duke Power decided to put power Through this rural area, mountain area, in between Wilkes County and Iredell County in North Carolina, how he sat in a chair and he stopped them because he felt like they were devaluing his property.
So I can tell you the stories over and over about those three men as if I knew them. So to me, I want to live a life that’s about family and about my family legacy because I want my great grandchildren to be able to talk about me the same way.
Nate: It’s amazing. I love that. That’s so powerful. Thank you.
Spectacular. I’m going to switch it up. And in this time, I feel like we need to drop these mics really quick. Cause that was amazing. Yeah, that was awesome. We do wrap out every show with a lightning round, super quick, three questions all about Indiana. I just want to say that was so powerful. And I’m like, I got the goose.
Toph always says it goosebumps. I have the goosebumps. Listen to you talk about your family, your heritage. I know that. That you’re going to leave a lasting legacy just by the way we’ve spoken for 45 50 minutes and I just know that you’re making a huge impact in the lives of your family and the broader Indiana, Indianapolis, Central, Midwest community.
So thank you for that. Lightning round. Here we go. Three questions. Quick answers. Outside of the amazing entrepreneurial ecosystem, what is Indiana known for?
Bailey: In my mind it’s known for sports. Boom. But I will say, so I’m a big sports fanatic. You’ll see me at games by myself because if certain teams aren’t playing, my husband’s are you going to the game tonight?
And I’m like, if a game is playing, I am there. But it’s known for just, I say, opportunity for ground up start up, bootstrap, as long as you’ve got the energy and you’re willing to find your grit. You can get it. So that’s what I also tell people Indiana is known for.
Nate: Heck yeah. What is a hidden gem in Indiana?
Bailey: Hidden gem in Indiana. I think if people aren’t from here, the hidden gem are restaurants. One in particular? One in particular. So I’m a beef snob. Because I grew up in beef cattle, so I find myself becoming a beef snob on like my steaks. And it’s not, before I got here, I’ve been this way my whole life, it’s, you can’t change it.
It’s just how I am. But I think my, I’m, I love like a 1933. I love still though a homegrown restaurant. Where you see that owner sitting in the back cooking, and he’s a part of, so in Westfield we have Park Street, so we got these homegrown restaurants. So anytime you’ll see me and my family, we’re there.
I just love to like we go to Chiba a lot, that’s their sushi spot. And I love seeing Keith and his wife and his kids. It’s a family business. So it’s one of those like you want to support because you know how everything rolls, it’s important. And a lot of times I can identify with myself.
Nate:I love that. But I think our restaurants. Amazing.
Matt: And Chiba and Westfield. Chiba, Westfield.
Nate: Gotta go. Yeah. And finally, final question. Who is someone that we need to keep on our radar? Someone who is doing big things.
Bailey: Someone who’s doing big things. Okay. So that’s it. I can’t answer one. So can I do a 1A, 1B?
1A, 1B. All right. The person that I probably would just tell their story of just where they come from as a kid and their success now, I happen to be married to him. So I am his big fan, biggest fan is my husband, Jimmy. I think I think his story of just how he grew up he grew up single parent, really small town, not necessarily knowing or just the access and resources.
I always say we’re different. So if he’s an A, I’m a Z. We’ve done a personality test where we’ve been on, where’s your spouse and can you touch your spouse? How far away from you? So it’s like your spouse is over here. That’s us. But the grit of just not knowing where your life would turn out, but you also know how it could have turned out and the fire to keep on trying to understand and learn and not necessarily he’s not a, he’s not an extrovert, but he’s not an introvert either.
He’ll tell you somebody he’s an introvert, but he’s not. But stepping in those rooms and being with his intellect, I’m just always a fan of, and I’m always like throwing him like out there and be like go. He’s no, I’m not going. I’m like, oh, you’re going. I already bought your ticket.
You’ll be there. The second person is probably dear to me. I would say is a fire on top of a fire. Is my girlfriend, Jana Hageman. I think for a business owner, a female, that I probably ping pong off of when she could easily be like, girl, I got a zillion problems of my own right now. And I’m taking this 30 minutes with you and I’m forever grateful to her for that.
But I love her. I love her. She woke up one day and said, I want to start a business. And it was around housing and nonprofit housing. And there wasn’t one that was basically just one for her to just say, I’m going to go duplicate. So I am always in awe to sit and watch. How she, I was in the room with her when she was doing her sketch and doing her discovery and I saw her pivot numerous times and to see her success and to see what she’s doing around the Midwest but especially here in the state of Indiana is one that I am, every time I go to a new facility or new building or I hear about oh I’m gonna do this or I’m gonna consider, this next space I always reflect to her, I remember us sitting at the restaurant one day and you’re telling me I’m considering.
So to see, this multimillion dollar company now, years later she is literally gonna take over the world sometime. What’s the name of the business? TNH Investments. TNH Investments.
Nate: All right. Might have to be that might be foreshadowing of a future guest.
Bailey: Yeah. Yeah. But she’s super cool. But I do I always think it’s great to find people.
Who you can, they might not have your same resource background and believe me to see their success and then know how it started, I’m just a very little peanut on the wall. But I think it’s so important to just seek out people that you can be like, just drop your shoulders with, take the weights off, and just be like, oh, my weight, my shoulders have been heavy because I couldn’t release this.
Or I couldn’t talk about this to certain groups. And then when you find there’s certain groups, it’s just, you’re such at ease.
Matt: I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you. And thanks for sharing your story here today.
Bailey: No, this was awesome. Thank you guys for having me.
Matt: It’s really inspiring what you’re doing.
Nate: Thank you. This was just a spectacular conversation, learn so much about logistics and just about building strong relationships, strong community and leaving a legacy. I feel like people don’t spend a lot of time thinking about the legacy that they’re one day going to leave behind to their family, their friends, their community, and the perspective you brought to that was just very powerful.
I will say that’s a wrap on this episode of get in. But if you are listening and you want your startup or your organization represented, send three large t shirts to 16 tech address to Nate at Powderkeg. And we will talk about your your startup, give you a minute ad read and give you a little shout out.
Thanks for listening. Thank you.
Matt: This has been Get IN, a Powderkeg production in partnership with Elevate Ventures. And we want to hear from you. If you have suggestions for our guest or segment, reach out to Matt or Nate on LinkedIn or on email. To discover top tier tech companies outside of Silicon Valley in hubs like Indiana, Check out our newsletter at powderkeg.com/newsletter. And to apply for membership to the Powderkeg executive community, check out powderkeg.com/premium. We’ll catch you next time and next week as we continue to help the world. Get IN. Since you just listened to this podcast, you might be thinking about starting one for your company.
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